The following transcript is not verbatim and has been revised for clarity and intent.

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Oliver: Welcome everyone to OutFoxed It! I’m Oliver Evensen.

Taryn: [Long Pause] Dang it, I’m Taryn Brewer.

Levi: I’m Levi Graham.

Oliver: We have another great question on writing. We will be talking about how do you balance writing for fun versus getting it done. Let’s just jump into it. I think all of us Can agree that we got into writing because it’s fun, right? We liked it. I cannot say exactly what was fun about it but for you. But for me, I liked the discovery. I could discover a whole new world that never existed until I created it. I hate to say that it was a hobby, but it was a fun hobby that I wanted to do for a living. I’ve always considered myself to be a serious writer, but I write because it’s what I loved to do and it was fun. However, balancing the fun and the work was difficult. I often felt like to get it done I had to wait for the muse. I found it difficult to strike a balance between; I need to write, versus, I want to write because it’s a lot of fun, what are your thoughts?

Levi: Oh, I agree with you. Going off the concept of balance, that does make sense. I know when I write if I’m not having fun, then I don’t schedule time to do it, and I think that kind of goes to what you are writing. If you’re not writing something you enjoy then it becomes work and nobody wants to go to work if that they can avoid it.

Taryn: That’s where I was at this last year. I lost the love for writing for fun until we started doing our recent collaboration as a writer’s group. I hadn’t realized that’s what I had lost and I hadn’t realized it. I was writing as more of a chore, so I felt like everything my character, my plot everything was just falling flat. There was a point where I was like why am I even doing this anymore. It was because I just didn’t have fun with the characters anymore. I just didn’t have fun anymore experimenting or getting my stories because I wasn’t enjoying it.

Oliver: Yeah, I get you there Taryn. I think we all hit that point this year. I finished my second novel this year—Liam’s Charity—and honestly when I was writing that especially that first draft it started as kind of fun. However, it really came about just getting it done. I wanted to have a book finished and the more focused on “I got get his book finished” the more it came about just finishing the novel. It really did, and it wasn’t as fun. Even though I was happy when the book was finished, it was all about that first draft. I didn’t have as much fun writing it. In fact, you saw as I was revising the draft it wasn’t really clicking either. I was struggling. It wasn’t clicking with the group. Some of you felt it was good and others felt it wasn’t, I was just like yeah this wasn’t working for me. But it comes back to that problem. Yeah, I got it done which was great, but at what cost?

Levi: I think that is a good point to bring up because if you are not having fun, it can really show in your work too. I remember going through some of your critiques chapter by chapter. I could literally tell the moment you lost the drive. The fun tone you had within a chapter whether it was a break or the time you took a break or came from a break to add to it. It was obvious.

Oliver: Speaking of that, I think it’s okay to get it done so to speak but I think what we must do is let the novel cool off. For instance, when Liam’s Charity was done. I was happy but I immediately got back to work on it. I took maybe a week off. I learned that immediately jumping back into it was a bad idea. It wasn’t clicking. Now it’s been a few months since I have worked on that manuscript. In fact, I had even considered never finishing it and just moving on. But looking back now, it feels fresh to me now. I was talking to Levi earlier about how I wanted to get back into it. I’m actually excited about it again, and I have been thinking about it and some of the changes I want to make to those parts weren’t working. As I said, I want to make it more romantic, and less dramatic. It’s got me excited. So, I guess the question is how can we keep that spark, that fun, that motivation? And making sure we are getting that. I don’t know if there’s a clear answer here, but I would like to try and solve that problem. I think that if we can get a good idea or an answer to that question we can help a lot of writers who are really struggling?

Levi: I think for me it’s motivation. Why am I writing this book? Is it simply to get it done? Am I doing it because I enjoy it? Or am I doing it because we have a submission due for our writer’s group? It might be motivation going into it because you’re really driven to get to it. I think that drives kind of what will motivate you, but yeah there’s always setting time aside. I remember when we had our meeting last week. Oliver brought up a good point about not forgetting to write and staying motivated. In a sense, you are setting yourself up for success. I don’t know Taryn you’ve been a little bit quiet to is there anything to add?

Taryn: I think sometimes I get hung up on what my audience might perceive in a chapter and that actually holds me back. Even just the fun versus getting it done argument. I feel like that’s an underlining current with my stories. Sometimes with the writing, it’s not always fun to dive deep into an emotional part of a book. There is a book I’m currently working on, and it involves a lot of character trauma. Honestly, there are some circumstances that I am not exactly comfortable with writing. It’s not something I thought I’d write but I feel it need to be written. I know it is a little off topic but I think sometimes that’s more of what holds me back more than anything. Because it is uncomfortable and it is less enjoyable. It’s easier to write the goofy bits, the comedy, and the action. But I get caught up in the negative emotion of the story, and when you really sink into those feelings it affects your work as well.

Oliver: Yeah, that could be uncomfortable. I enjoy, but I’m not great at humor, but I enjoy writing humor because even if people don’t get my jokes, at least I had fun writing it, right? It just keeps you going because you laugh sometimes at your own jokes. But with those more serious emotions, it’s tough. It hurts sometimes. It really hurts to write those things, and it’s basically being vulnerable. You’re putting yourself out there on the page and hoping people will read it and understand you. But you are always kind of worried. What if somebody doesn’t like this? You know, haters are always going to hate, that kind of a thing.

Taryn: That worries me as well. I think sometimes if I go too dark in my novel, are people going to see this as me as a person and not just as an author? Because I know a lot of the time you know the audience…The conversation around the author’s intent is very strong. I think that can affect our work, and I think that can affect how we write our work if we let it. Sorry, I know that was a bit of a tangent but.

Oliver: No that’s okay. Thank you for sharing with us Taryn. I’m going to swing us back a little bit. I found this quote that I like. It says ”Just write one page and then you can quit. If you really want to. Bet you won’t want to.” And I found this very true. We kind of talked about this in our last podcast. Often just getting into the first twenty minutes to kind of start your engine will get you going. Levi you once mentioned earlier that you have to motivate yourself right. So if you start writing at 8 o’clock, be sure that you’re up and ready and motivated. That means you need some sort of writing routine that gets you in the mood. I think it’s just like this quote tells us. Just sit down and write that page or set that timer. I think that is the best way to start if you’re not feeling inspired. However, each of us must come up with our own thing. It could be music or something else. There are several things that you can do, but we must set up that routine.

Levi: I agree. Going off on what you said, all of us are different. We all have different styles. We all have different approaches. We all have different writing methods. For me, all I need is a moment to do it when my children are not screaming. Where if I zone out, I’m good. A lot of the time, like earlier on when I was starting up writing again, I decided that I will start my day at 6 am and have a cup of hot chocolate and that’s what got me out of bed. It wasn’t writing. I wanted that hot chocolate and it was something simple but it was a reward, and I felt that to get the reward it was essential that I got up early. That was a good starting point for me.

Oliver: So, what you’re saying is that we have to find something that we really love to get us up in the morning right?

Levi: Yes, and we have to rip it away if we don’t follow through. Just find something to get you motivated. I mean for some people it could even be reading a book the night before. For some, it could be something that they enjoy like listening to an audiobook. For others, it could be researching and outlining ideas for their project for ten minutes, which could inspire their writing. It’s whatever you find that could inspire your writing, and it could be subjective. That is your own thing and it’s something that no one can take away from you because you’re the captain of your own ship.

Taryn: Yeah, I find it true for me too. We rearranged our apartment recently, and part of it was to set up my writing space. I have the book all here. I have shelves I can put things on. There is a way that I can now perfectly focus on what is ahead of me. Before I had the writing space in the kitchen and I was like, “I can see something on the counter,” and the next I know I’m cleaning; I’m not writing at all. Now if I do stare off my husband starts making faces at me…

Levi: [somewhat sarcastic] You’re saying your husband is not a distraction. 

Taryn: [laughs] He is a distraction. That’s why I have to look down otherwise he will start laughing at me and then the next thing I know I have written nothing. You’re not helping, baby. Yeah, for the most part, I like having this space set up. It works out during those quiet hours in the morning when Dans is gone and the cats are asleep. I can sit down and power write.

Levi: I mean I agree. For me, the most time that I write is to and from work. I actually ride a train. For me that’s time— that 45-minute trip to work and then the 45-minute trip home is kind of my time to write. I make sure that while I sit on the train I write. What I do is open my laptop, plug it in, put in headphones, and write. So it’s just a routine for me and it’s just up to me to make sure that I do it. We even set up nightly writing meet-ups, which work for us. Whatever works for you. It’s all about finding the time and the motivation that works for you.

Taryn: Well, something new that I have done is writing in a notebook. At certain parts of the day, I will just kind of scrawl out what I’m thinking in the day about the story things that are popping in my head and getting it paper. Personally, I hate handwriting, I feel like the mistakes stand out all clear, and it’s less fun but then I take out all those facts at the end of the day. I take out what’s best, and I bring it to the computer, and now I have something that’s a little cleaner because it has been mulled over all day. For me, this method really works.

Oliver: I agree with you there Taryn, I don’t know if you guys remember, this is the history for our writer’s group and for the benefit of those listening. When we first formed this Writer’s Group, Levi and I went to a signing for Brandon Saunderson at the Barnes & Noble in Idaho Falls. We actually met Hayden and his wife at the event. Before the event started I grabbed a Moleskine pocket notebook. I’m kind of embarrassed at how much it cost me. I think it was about fifteen dollars. Of all the notebooks I have owned over the years, this little notebook has lasted, I actually stopped using it for a few years. The other day I was reading a book on writing and how notebooks are indispensable. I realized that I need a pen and a notebook to help me keep track of my ideas throughout the day. I thought let me see if I can find this notebook. I found it, and I’ve been carrying it with me ever since. Anytime I have an idea, I just jot it down in my notebook, and I tell you I can’t believe how big of a difference this has made for me. I now notice that I have worthwhile ideas coming to my mind throughout the day. Before I was just passively drifting through the day not really paying attention or even thinking about the ideas that are coming. Sometimes I have these great little ideas that pop inside my head about a new or existing, project, and I just ignore them and just keep them going. Now that I have this notebook with me all the time. I have a place to put it. In fact, I’ve used more pages in the past three days, than I have the entire time since I got it all those years ago. It really is an amazing tool, and it gets me motivated and when I sit down and I don’t know what to write. I just pull out the notebook, skim through it, and before you know it, I’m writing again. Sorry I know that was a little long.  

Levi: I love your stories, Oliver. Great narration and great diction.

Oliver: [sarcastic] Thank you. I try so hard. [regular voice] There is one thing I wanted to be clear on. I really do think it’s important to get it done, right? If you really want to be successful as a writer, I don’t think we can do it just when we feel like writing. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

Taryn: Oh, I agree. I was thinking about that today. If you really want to bust out a novel. It’s like when they talk about NaNoWriMo. That just a few thousand words a day. If not like you’re writing a sixty-thousand-word novel for 30 days. But that means sitting down and doing it. Sometimes that is hard if you have a headache or not feeling well. Perhaps you’re just not feeling inspired, or you have lost the fun for that day. But sometimes it is like we talked about last week sometimes you just need to push through and do that twenty minutes or do that ten-minute brainstorm and just jump into it or have that hot cocoa and just into it. 

Oliver: Because let’s face it—If you’re not writing, you’re not a writer. You must sit down and do the work. I guess you must find a way to make it fun for you. There are going to be days when it’s going to be a grind but if you really want to do it and be successful there are going to be days that writing is going to be a grind. That’s okay because the days you’re inspired, in my opinion, you’d need to go back and fix the days you were grinding a little bit. Maybe all of it is worthless maybe it’s not. I honestly believe you can find something good even if you didn’t particularly enjoy writing it. However, just having written, I think you’re becoming a better writer. It’s through practicing writing that we become better at our craft.

Taryn: I think that it’s the truth because if you look at even the artists as they are drawing and improving it’s the constant practice. One of the basic things that an artist does is that of doing lines. They just draw lines over and over and practice them until they become silky smooth or same with circles people just do pages and pages of circles. It sounds boring, but it’s the fundamentals that help us become great writers.

Oliver: Maybe we need to come up with some of our own writing drills or exercises that we just do to hone our creative writing skills. I’m not going to say exactly what you should do, I think you should just take some time and think and that could be your homework. Think of some drills and exercises that you can do every day, or every other day, to jump-start that writing process. Ideally, they should be somewhat fun right because you don’t want to start on a bad note, but you need to find what works for you. I think that’s the biggest challenge otherwise everyone will be writing, and they would be exceptional at it. But let’s face it writing is hard.

Levi: Find your safe space.

Oliver: Find your inspiration. Set aside ten minutes, grab a notebook and pen. Think about what inspires you and use that to get writing. Ok, I’m going to call it unless anyone has some last thoughts. 

Taryn: Do the homework and catch you all next week!

Oliver: Thank you for coming in. We’re out.